Thomas Cook

[paully]

A staggering amount of money to find each month just to lease a plane......

Thomas Cook’s UK fleet consisted of 34 aircraft, mainly single-aisle Airbus A320 and A321 jets which it leased for an average of $350,000 a month, along with a smaller number of larger and more expensive A330s, according to air travel data and analytics company Cirium.

Paying silly money on leases for the E190`s by Flybe was said to be a large factor in them nearly going down the same road. Seems that some charged with running airline finances are `not the sharpest tools in the box`.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

A staggering amount of money to find each month just to lease a plane......

Thomas Cook’s UK fleet consisted of 34 aircraft, mainly single-aisle Airbus A320 and A321 jets which it leased for an average of $350,000 a month, along with a smaller number of larger and more expensive A330s, according to air travel data and analytics company Cirium.

This figure only covers the depreciation costs of a A321 aircraft, assuming a 25 year life.
We all want cheaper seat costs, yet assuming a A321 is making 4 journeys a day for 350 days a year, its replacement cost will be £15 a seat, before staff, fuel profit etc.
All of us have enjoyed cheap seat prices, however, I agree with MOL, there is a price to pay, last year every Ryanair seat was sold under cost as it was at virtually every airline, the list of failures Monarch, Air Berlin etc., is testament to this.
In 3 years time we may wish we had all paid more as choice will be greatly reduced and the price has rocketed.

 

[Jobsagoodun]

Paying silly money on leases for the E190`s by Flybe was said to be a large factor in them nearly going down the same road. Seems that some charged with running airline finances are `not the sharpest tools in the box`.

I think important to bear in mind that Flybe were the worldwide launch customer for the E195 some 12yrs ago and the state of the market was likely very different then. For a start you didn’t have Easyjet and Ryanair amongst others dumping huge numbers of 737s onto the market when Flybe made their decision on lease price. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and with oversupply in the second hand market for 5-10yr old 737’s, those E195’s suddenly looked very expensive. Not necessarily bad management but certainly bad timing.

 

[paully]

Well if you`re going to be the launch customer you are in pole position and deal a deal to reflect that. If you are smart management you make sure you don`t tie yourself into overly long expensive contracts either.The Boeings could have been given away with Rice Krispies but were of no use to Flybe...Let us not forget it was the less than stellar management, over many years, that brought them to their present predicament.

 

[Jobsagoodun]

I don't disagree that management did a deal that in retrospect looked bad, but at the time the only alternative to the E195 in size was a 318 or 736, of which neither really sold in great numbers and would have been even more expensive when new. It's not like Flybe were ordering a significant number to get a decent volume discount.

At least now, there is significant buying power in the group (VS, AF, KL, DL) which should prevent high leasing costs ever being an issue again. I can see them finally succeeding, especially with a more premium Virgin brand that might encourage people to pay a little more too. I hope so anyway

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I suppose that in any industry those at the top of the tree in a company are appointed and paid good money for their ability, experience, judgement and prescience. If they get it right they invariably receive handsome bonuses. If they get it seriously wrong, they still often seem to walk away well rewarded.

 

[Len Fish]

In view of the Thomas Cook saga the Government are considering changing administration law for airlines that go under so that rather than all assets being seized as soon as they go bust the aircraft seizure will be delayed so they can continue to be used to rescue the stranded passengers, rather than having to find other aircraft from wherever. They reckon this will work out cheaper and seems common sense to me.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In view of the Thomas Cook saga the Government are considering changing administration law for airlines that go under so that rather than all assets being seized as soon as they go bust the aircraft seizure will be delayed so they can continue to be used to rescue the stranded passengers, rather than having to find other aircraft from wherever. They reckon this will work out cheaper and seems common sense to me.

Certainly sounds an idea worth exploring, although I'm always mindful of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

[User1007]

In view of the Thomas Cook saga the Government are considering changing administration law for airlines that go under so that rather than all assets being seized as soon as they go bust the aircraft seizure will be delayed so they can continue to be used to rescue the stranded passengers, rather than having to find other aircraft from wherever. They reckon this will work out cheaper and seems common sense to me.

Still leaves the problem of the airline not having an AOC or any money to operate the planes though. And once they've gone how confident will the creditors be that the aircraft will actually come back?

Perhaps the government could pay for the company to continue for a short period to get everyone home, but given airlines tend to go bust around license renewal dates or when the summer bills are due that might need a lot more money than just flying the planes.

 

[Jerry]

Still leaves the problem of the airline not having an AOC

I'd imagine that the airline would keep it's AOC as it was wound down. Kind of a similar process to Air Berlin when they went bankrupt and any money for operating would come from the government.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Yes I saw that today and beggars belief why it wasn’t done earlier, keeps the pilots and crew employed for at least another couple of weeks and saves the taxpayer having to pay for Malaysian A380 bringing people back from Palma to MAN...now that one flight alone wont have come cheap, madness.

Madness from a Conserative, ran by a c**t (thats not strong enough tbh) called Dominic Cummings, is exactly what we will get. Madness. I went mental when i found they just pulled the plug.

Why not pay the people their September wages, keep others in employment till done. Personally, i'm glad i wasn't Prime Minister, but if i was, they'd of been given till 30th September. From there we would have wound down the airline, 2 weeks to rescue. A further week to move aircraft out to where they need to be without clogging up big airports such as MAN, LGW et al.

I'd like to see the total bill of pulling the plug versus doing a much more controlled shut down.

 

[lbaspotter]

One year on since there demise Thomas Cook Holidays are back from the dead. There new website went live this morning with holidays bookable once again

https://www.thomascook.com/

So far for summer 2021 they are only offering holidays to Quarantine Free Destinations. From Leeds/Bradford they have Dublin using Aer Lingus and Corfu using TUI. So I suspect they may also end up eventually offering Palma using TUI's charter flights.

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi lbaspotter
i wonder if the visits to DSA of those very smart chinese biz jets have any thing to do with the revival of the TCX brand.
regards
sm

 

[stars&sids]

hi lbaspotter
i wonder if the visits to DSA of those very smart chinese biz jets have any thing to do with the revival of the TCX brand.
regards
sm

There’s been some local speculation that they’re in Connection with the Chinese acquisition of the Scunthorpe Steel works.

 

[SNOWMAN]

stars&sids
thanks for info.
regards
sm

 

[JetRob]

Although I welcome the return of Thomas Cook, I do think customer confidence will not be on their side due to the previous mess they got themselves into last year.

I hope some sales come out of this venture using other airlines.

Anyone reckon if the sales takeoff (pardon the pun) there might be an opportunity for them to nab some aircraft again?