Qatar Airways

[Jerry]

There are a lot of people who seem they want this route to fail. If the cargo uptake is as big as people think then they will need the 787. Maybe it will evolve into a mix of 787 and a321NEO

As was said wait and see what turns up,that way there will be no bull---t. If the service was operated to where ever you always get the few that wants it to fail. Its not just about routes its just about every thing connected with aviation.

I think there are a few posters on the other forum who think that an airport of Cardiffs size and Wales itself shouldn't get a flight like Qatar and that Welsh people should be content going to England and that Qatar shouldn't be offering a service to Wales. I sometimes think it's a view they have of Wales itself that forms that opinion and what many have said they would never say about Scotland or Northern Ireland because they have 'large' airports and i think in many of those posters mind's are proper countries.

In the end the service could be an unmitigated disaster or a roaring success or take a while to slowly grow and mature. In 8 days time we'll start to find out.

 

[Jerry]

According to FR24 Qatar have started today! Along with Delta, Etihad, Emirates, Swiss and Air Canada and all operating via Heathrow! LOL
View attachment 8457

 

[Coathanger16]

I think there are a few posters on the other forum who think that an airport of Cardiffs size and Wales itself shouldn't get a flight like Qatar and that Welsh people should be content going to England and that Qatar shouldn't be offering a service to Wales. I sometimes think it's a view they have of Wales itself that forms that opinion and what many have said they would never say about Scotland or Northern Ireland because they have 'large' airports and i think in many of those posters mind's are proper countries.

In the end the service could be an unmitigated disaster or a roaring success or take a while to slowly grow and mature. In 8 days time we'll start to find out.

I must admit when Qatar announced they'd be serving Cardiff I was rather surprised an airport of that size could warrant a service from one of the MEB3. Having said that I always thought BRS had the demand for a MEB3 route so as long as Cardiff can tap into some of BRS catchment I don't see why it wouldn't work.

As for aircraft, if the plan was to switch to the A321NEO when they were delivered, why launch the route with a 787 rather than wait until Qatar had the A321NEO?

One thing to note though is that from 2019, Air Italy (Qatar's rebrand of Meridiana) will start leasing 787's from Qatar up to a total of 30 - the number of 787's Qatar currently has. Qatar also have 30 787-9's on order which I think are due to be delivered starting in 2019 - essentially I think as the -9's are delivered, they will displace the -8's to Air Italy. I'm not sure how long it will take to deliver all the -9's, but the -9 offers a ~20% increase in capacity compared to the -8, so whilst the -8 may work at Cardiff, Qatar still might use a smaller aircraft if demand doesn't pick up enough to warrant using the -9.

 

[Jerry]

As for aircraft, if the plan was to switch to the A321NEO when they were delivered, why launch the route with a 787 rather than wait until Qatar had the A321NEO?

With the A321neo it will be interesting to see what routes they use them on. It could be they focus them on India and Africa. In the long run depending on how the route does they may have in mind an upgrade to the A350 and the inaugural flight may have that in mind.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

With the A321neo it will be interesting to see what routes they use them on. It could be they focus them on India and Africa. In the long run depending on how the route does they may have in mind an upgrade to the A350 and the inaugural flight may have that in mind.

I think the problem will be the A321neo won't have lie flat beds. Considering some of the comments I have witnessed on other forums saying they won't use the CWL flight as the lounge doesn't provide champagne, not having lie flat seats and just large arm chair recliners could easily drive someone over the bridge to LHR. I also think half the reason this flight is working is the Cargo capacity of the 787, which the A321neo cannot match.

Qatar, operating from a few UK markets now will want their product to have some form of consistency.

 

[Coathanger16]

I think the problem will be the A321neo won't have lie flat beds. Considering some of the comments I have witnessed on other forums saying they won't use the CWL flight as the lounge doesn't provide champagne, not having lie flat seats and just large arm chair recliners could easily drive someone over the bridge to LHR. I also think half the reason this flight is working is the Cargo capacity of the 787, which the A321neo cannot match.

That's a fair point on cargo capacity, but Qatar do have a lie flat bed on their current A320 aircraft and I assume something similar to this would feature of their A320NEO aircraft:

(bed @ 8 minutes)

Whilst it may not be as good as their new QSuite, its certainly better than any narrow body business class in Europe.

In the long run depending on how the route does they may have in mind an upgrade to the A350 and the inaugural flight may have that in mind.

I'm not sure much can be implied from the fact they're using an A350 for the first flight more than it being a publicity event. The route to BHX has been operating for over 2 years now and has only seen 787's. Edinburgh has been served for 5 years and is only just seeing the A350.

With the A321neo it will be interesting to see what routes they use them on. It could be they focus them on India and Africa.

I suspect some of them may be used so Qatar can go back to operating A320 sized aircraft on routes which currently require larger aircraft with a greater range because of longer routes from the blockade still in effect.

 

[superking]

The A350 is being used as there is a shortage of B787 aircraft. They have more B787 coming into service about a weeks time. Weather they will use the A350 into Cwl till they come on line or change over a B787 with a A350 elsewhere not long to wait to find out.

 

[Jerry]

What the A350 being used for the first flight will do is give the airport experience with a larger aircraft than a 787 8 on stand 7 and it gives Qatar the chance to evaluate the A350 performance at CWL and some PR as well. What will be interesting will be how much the cargo stats grow at the airport.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

That's a fair point on cargo capacity, but Qatar do have a lie flat bed on their current A320 aircraft and I assume something similar to this would feature of their A320NEO aircraft:

(bed @ 8 minutes)

Whilst it may not be as good as their new QSuite, its certainly better than any narrow body business class in Europe.



I'm not sure much can be implied from the fact they're using an A350 for the first flight more than it being a publicity event. The route to BHX has been operating for over 2 years now and has only seen 787's. Edinburgh has been served for 5 years and is only just seeing the A350.



I suspect some of them may be used so Qatar can go back to operating A320 sized aircraft on routes which currently require larger aircraft with a greater range because of longer routes from the blockade still in effect.

I stand corrected! Perhaps I was slightly mis led by this video...

 

[Severn]

Qatar currently use the A320/A321 on flights in Europe up to about 2,400nm (great-circle distance) which is around 6hr 20 flying time from DOH. They use them to 16 destinations in the Baltics, Eastern and Southern Europe as well as Helsinki.
On flights to Europe that are further than 2,400nm (over 6hr 30 flight time) from DOH, Qatar only use widebody aircraft - the B788, A359, A346 (rarely), B77W and A388.
There are 21 destinations which are over 2,400nm from DOH and these are in Western and Northern Europe. The smallest airport by passenger numbers in this region to be served will be
CWL (1,464,000 in 2017) and this will be served 1x daily on the B788 in August 2018.

The next biggest cities that Qatar serve are:
BHX (12,983,436) - 1x daily B788.
NCE (13,304,782) - 5x weekly B788
and EDI (13,410,256) - 1x daily A350.

The B788 fleet are used on 12 of these routes whereas the A359 is used on 8 routes, mainly to the larger cities. This is unsurprising given the A359s superior cargo capacity and it's larger number of business class seats than the B788. The A359 has 36 business class seats in comparison to the the B788 which only has 22. Therefore only the routes with strong business class demand will likely see the A359 going forward. The routes this August with flights on the A359 are Edinburgh, Geneva, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Paris-CDG, Zürich, Madrid and London-LHR so let's wait and see how the CWL route performs on the B788 before getting ahead of ourselves assuming regular A359 flights might just be round the corner!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I must admit when Qatar announced they'd be serving Cardiff I was rather surprised an airport of that size could warrant a service from one of the MEB3. Having said that I always thought BRS had the demand for a MEB3 route so as long as Cardiff can tap into some of BRS catchment I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Various rumours have surfaced as to why Qatar went to CWL instead of BRS, such as the influence and support of the Welsh Government; potential greater cargo uplift; serving a capital city; likelihood of APD being abolished in Wales that would help the yield; the influence of the Qatar CEO who admitted publicly he took the decision and it was not supported by all his senior staff.

A 787-8 can reach Doha from the existing BRS runway without load penalty but there are peristent, credible stories that Qatar did not consider that airport because of operational constraints. I was told as much privately by a senior figure at BRS who I know personally. I tried to get 'public confirmation' (so I could set out in some detail in a public setting what I'd been told privately) when I attended a BRS master plan consultation event in the winter but the senior manager to whom I put the point would not confirm it, merely saying that some airlines have their own operational criteria for an aircraft even though some airlines will operate the same type at an airport the other airline eschews. Having said all this, there is no guarantee that Qatar would have gone to BRS anyway.

Another reason for going to CWL might be that Bristol area long haul travellers have a LHR default setting - after all it's little more than just up the road from parts of the BRS catchment - and Qatar might believe there would be less leakage from CWL than from BRS. Against that, BRS's larger (and generally more prosperous) catchment could afford more leakage in actual numbers (as opposed to percentage figures).

Getting sufficient passenger numbers, especially premium travellers, from outside CWL's core catchment might be the key to making the route a success. The airline and CWL itself will have to work hard to get those travellers, with the West of England despite its propensity to use LHR the obvious target.

It's all now water under the bridge, or bridges as some might say on Severnside. The Severnside MEB3 route is in place for people to use. My gut feeling is that many will and it will succeed. There is more going for it than not.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I can't but think CWL needs to do something different to enhance the experience at the Airport, rather than just rely on the QR experience. What that is could amount to anything. But even with the recent terminal upgrades, it doesn' really put CWL ahead of any other Airport, some might say it's still not comparable to other airports. CWL will hopefully provide a quicker and smoother process through the terminal, hopefully security queues won't become a thing as numbers coming through the Airport grow. The exec lounge experience is yet to be demonstrated, the gate area is somewhat lacking, security is nothing to shout about and check in and immigration is still basic to say the least.
Any thoughts on 'outside of the box' ideas on what CWL can do to differeniate the Airport experience or even the process prior to getting to the Airport?
Maybe a coach service from Bristol to CWL via Newport, and the same from the West (Carmarthen via Swansea) that matches the QR departing and arriving times, that can also carry passengers from other Airlines.

 

[Bcn_boy]

Agree on the bus service from the West. It is the airport for west as well as South Wales.

 

[Jerry]

For me one of the reasons I like using CWL is that it is small. I've never had long walks to the gate like I've had at AMS, LAX or EDI and it generally feels like you are in an airport rather than a shopping centre! There are things like the boarding areas that need improving but they will take time.
One of the things I'd like them to do is open the lounge earlier as if you are catching a early morning flight ie 6 am it's only open for 30 mins before you need to board.
One thing I wonder they could do for Qatar and KLM business class passengers is provide a complimentary chauffeur service to and from the airport along with fast track security and fast track check in something like that could be appealing especially to ME3 business class passengers.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

For me one of the reasons I like using CWL is that it is small. I've never had long walks to the gate like I've had at AMS, LAX or EDI and it generally feels like you are in an airport rather than a shopping centre! There are things like the boarding areas that need improving but they will take time.
One of the things I'd like them to do is open the lounge earlier as if you are catching a early morning flight ie 6 am it's only open for 30 mins before you need to board.
One thing I wonder they could do for Qatar and KLM business class passengers is provide a complimentary chauffeur service to and from the airport along with fast track security and fast track check in something like that could be appealing especially to ME3 business class passengers.

The chauffeur service would be nice but an expensive thing to run. I think virgin Atlantic do it for upper passengers but can't it happening for a premium product. Maybe a completely separate premium security area that can be opened just for when the QR flights are going but also flexible to be used during busy periods when QR isn't going. It would be better than just a premium lane leading to the same check points.
Airports need people to shop as that's where revenue comes from. Which creates a fine line between a quick and simple transit and a busy shopping centre feel. Discounts for economy passengers into the normal Lounge would be good. Still a revenue stream whilst passenger numbers are still rising and the lounge might not yet be at capacity. Is there actually going to be a separate QR lounge or is it staying as just an enlarged and improved standard lounge?

 

[Jerry]

Is there actually going to be a separate QR lounge or is it staying as just an enlarged and improved standard lounge?

No separate lounge but there is a separate business lounge in the Executive Lounge which is available for Qatar Airways and KLM Business Class passenger's.

 

[superking]

The A350 is planned for 1 day,and that is the first day of operation. Then onward a B787 is planned,but it might alter.

 

[Jerry]

Obviously it depends on how well the service does in the future and also how many seats their 787 9s will have but any upgrade in aircraft will probably be in the distant future. Will still be nice to see the A350 on Tuesday!

 

[Sean123]

We're relying on you jerry for some pics

 

[TheLocalYokel]

One thing I wonder they could do for Qatar and KLM business class passengers is provide a complimentary chauffeur service to and from the airport along with fast track security and fast track check in something like that could be appealing especially to ME3 business class passengers.

Emirates still supplies chauffeured cars for its first-class and business-class passengers. Etihad used to but stopped doing so last year, apart from journeys from/to Abu Dhabi Airport to/from anywhere in the UAE. I can't remember Qatar offering a chauffeur service. The MEB3s - certainly Emirates and Etihad, I'm not sure about Qatar - are cutting back on a number of things in their premium products. I shan't be surprised if Emirates axes its own chauffeur service at some point.

I saw this advertisement today. It's on the side of a derelict hotel which has been covered in fabric. It's a very striking advert at Temple Gate which is a multi-lane dual carriageway, one of the major ingress and egress routes from south Bristol. The Bristol-Bath corridor runs along it as well as many bus routes to that part of south Bristol and to Bath and the Mendips (Wells/Glastonbury/Street).

Surprisingly this huge advertisement is no more. I passed by today and it had gone meaning it was displayed for something under four weeks. With the service beginning next week I thought it would have remained at least until then. The derelict hotel on which the advert was displayed is currently advert-free. Before the Qatar advert there was a big advert for Great Western Railway there.