I just think it's wasting opportunity ....use the new facility for servies not available from the NW...not try to entice carriers who are already serving the region from the other NW airport and doing a reasonable job at already.
 
I agree EGCC_MAN with your comments. Both Easyjet and Ryanair have lots of duplicated routes from both MAN and LPL, like so Jet2 from LBA. So how have rapidly growing airlines like Wizz not recognised the huge gaps in the Eastern European markets especially from Manchester? Has it been the problems of gate space? Or negotiations of fees etc.., or has there been no contact between the two parties regarding the possibility of services? How expensive is it for airlines to operated into MAN in comparison to other UK airports like LPL, LTN and BHX
 
MAN doesn't need Wizz Air or Blue Air to increase it's Eastern European routes when Ryanair can do it more effectively.
 
I think you will find that airlines are always talking and trying to drive a bargain
becasue cost is the driver
 
The numbers have dropped from peak levels but some Eastern European destinations still represent very large markets. And not just for migrant workers ... there is tremendous citybreak tourism demand to the region.
 
MAN doesn't need Wizz Air or Blue Air to increase it's Eastern European routes when Ryanair can do it more effectively.

Ryanair has nine aircraft based at MAN with a further three due to be added in Mid-summer. And many more Ryanair services visit from other bases. Yet Ryanair have chosen not to focus on Eastern European routes from MAN to the extent they do elsewhere. So there is a gap to be filled. If Ryanair step up that's great. But if they don't the opportunity is there for other carriers to exploit.
 
I agree EGCC_MAN with your comments. Both Easyjet and Ryanair have lots of duplicated routes from both MAN and LPL, like so Jet2 from LBA. So how have rapidly growing airlines like Wizz not recognised the huge gaps in the Eastern European markets especially from Manchester? Has it been the problems of gate space? Or negotiations of fees etc.., or has there been no contact between the two parties regarding the possibility of services? How expensive is it for airlines to operated into MAN in comparison to other UK airports like LPL, LTN and BHX

Sorry, Borneobob. I didn't spot your post straight away.

Negotiations between MAG and airline operators are deemed commercially sensitive (with good reason) so it is most unlikely that we would learn of their progress - or even if they are taking place at all. Gate space is only a problem for MAN at peak times; airlines visiting from overseas bases can generally work around this with ease. I would expect new carriers to be offered T2 in any case. T2 is set to process fewer passengers in 2017 than it did last year when Monarch operated from there. In terms of how expensive is it to use MAN, each carrier has their own confidential deal. But we can say with confidence that Ryanair and EasyJet (amongst others) are rarely inclined to overpay. And they're both present at MAN in size. With regard to Wizz Air specifically, we must keep in mind that they have a whole continent to choose from. They may see more compelling opportunities than MAN (from their perspective) for some time yet.
 
Warsaw Chopin would be my preference. Three flights per week by Ryanair to Modlin is woefully insufficient. LOT did apply for slots to WAW this summer but then cancelled them again. So at least we know the MAN route is one they're prepared to consider.
 
I think the Polish market has strunk dramatically over last couple of years
Bucherest has already been served from MAN but again it`s not a huge market from
this area
 
I must say I'm all for passion but I do think "poach" is a tad strong. If you go to the supermarket you make a choice based on opportunity / cost be that Asda, Aldi , Tesco etc.

Airlines surely do the same ?

If WizzAir decided to move to Manchester it would be based on multiple factors.

I have no idea on the comparable landing fees between Liverpool / Doncaster and Manchester, economies of scale suggest Manchester is "historically" lower BUT if by poach you suggest MAG might offer them a sweetheart deal , well, on that basis alone WizzAir would have been in years ago. Clearly WizzAir take into account a much broader swathe of economic data.

It's a multi faceted business which will ebb and flo based on numerous factors.

Look at the maritime business, Liverpool has effectively swept up most of the business that used to come down the MSC.

Nothing stays the same !
 
I don't think having a shiny new terminal will make a blind bit of difference in respect of an airline choosing destination A Manchester or B Somewhere else.

Yes MAG PR will be in overdrive if a new entrant does arrive coincidentally at the sametime, but would an airline choose Manchester as a destination based on a new roof ? NO ! Would they choose Manchester as a destination based on yield, Yes!
 
Yes, "poach" does imply MAN persuading Wizz to up sticks at LPL and move to MAN. I'm not aware that anyone suggested that, but posed the idea that there may be an additional viable market from MAN to supplement their LPL operation. As has been said, easyjet and Ryanair duplicate certain routes from both airports.
 
A few weeks ago when discussing Northern Powerhouse, MAN supporters were advocating that LPL/LBA/DSA/HUY/NCL should forget about Long Haul and leave it all to MAN. Now, when MAN supporters are trying to get routes already served from LPL etc, that aren't served from there, someone has the "gall" to suggest that MAN should not bother. No, they are only applying the same logic as before - limited market, so one airline but MAN supporters don't like it.
It is an altruistic ideal that airports share routes out between them and it will never happen.
I think the reason that MAN has "perceived gaps" in its routes portfolio is that some people think that MAN should serve everywhere that other northern airports do. Think of this as a possible reason - there are not enough potential passengers to service the route/make a profit. May I suggest that we use the services provided even though it is not from MAN.
 
A few weeks ago when discussing Northern Powerhouse, MAN supporters were advocating that LPL/LBA/DSA/HUY/NCL should forget about Long Haul and leave it all to MAN. Now, when MAN supporters are trying to get routes already served from LPL etc, that aren't served from there, someone has the "gall" to suggest that MAN should not bother. No, they are only applying the same logic as before - limited market, so one airline but MAN supporters don't like it.
It is an altruistic ideal that airports share routes out between them and it will never happen.
I think the reason that MAN has "perceived gaps" in its routes portfolio is that some people think that MAN should serve everywhere that other northern airports do. Think of this as a possible reason - there are not enough potential passengers to service the route/make a profit. May I suggest that we use the services provided even though it is not from MAN.

Yep agree with your point.
 
A few weeks ago when discussing Northern Powerhouse, MAN supporters were advocating that LPL/LBA/DSA/HUY/NCL should forget about Long Haul and leave it all to MAN.

Not at all its a free market and airlines are free to choose from where they wish to fly and that includes long haul.

Let's not misquote posters.

5 or 10 years ago PIA used to fly long haul direct from Leeds and an airline whose name escapes me also operated from Liverpool to New York.

Wardair I "think " also used LBA for a while ?

If the market exists the route will prosper , neither of those routes flourished and due to changes in the market do not exist today, on that basis one might assume there is no market (at least to those destinations). That then begs the question if there is no market to a destination which one might perceive as lucrative what chance other destinations ?

Maybe the introduction of the A321NEO or B 737 Max may change matters ?
 
MAN supporters were advocating that LPL/LBA/DSA/HUY/NCL should forget about Long Haul and leave it all to MAN.

Can you recall who was arguing this? Because as I remember it, some who are 'loyal' to other airports suggested this was their perception of the MAN mindset. but I don't recall regular MAN contributors saying this should happen. A free market means exactly that: any airport is free to compete for any business it can attract. That includes LPL, LBA, DSA, NCL etc. competing for long-haul services. And each of those four have hosted long-haul services ... NCL still does in the form of Emirates to DXB. Do they still get afew TUI long-hauls as well?

Let's be clear here. LBA and EMA successfully bid to secure based Monarch Airlines aircraft, an airline which was established at MAN. Are some saying that they should not have been allowed to approach Monarch because they already offered a comprehensive network of schedules from MAN? And Jet2 ... present in size at both LBA and MAN ... it is well-known that LPL would dearly love to secure a deal with them. Are we to suggest that LPL shouldn't be allowed to make an offer to Jet2 for that reason? BUT ... suggest that MAN-WAW could be served by a carrier which already operates schedules from LPL, DSA, BHX and cue uproar. The big bad wolf is trying to "poach" business from the competition. You can't have it both ways. What you really seem to advocate is protectionism on behalf of LPL but a free-for-all for them and others to approach airlines using MAN. That is not the way of the free market.

Now there are people who advocate protectionism in commerce. But that is a political discussion. Unfortunately for those who do favour protectionism, the current Conservative government is desperate to secure free trade deals wherever it can. The Labour opposition voices fears that the Conservatives are jeopardising free trade access to the EU27 ... so they clearly want free trade as well. Meanwhile, the Liberals are desperate to remain inside the EU ... with the continuation of free trade being their primary stated objective. So I don't see an outcry for the return of protectionism from any of today's key decision-makers (and that is a very good thing).

So the free market is what we have. And one consequence of that is that LPL, LBA, DSA, BHX and EMA are free to compete for any business they like. And so is MAN. The same regime applies equally to them. But that means that MAN is perfectly entitled to proposition Wizz Air, just as LPL is perfectly entitled to proposition Jet2. Or a long-haul carrier. If you want a protectionist regime for LPL, maybe you need to launch your own political party.

Meanwhile, service provision between MAN and Warsaw is well below the level which the market could support. MAG is perfectly entitled to approach any carrier which could fill that gap. This applies to other routes in Eastern Europe also. And LPL and the rest are welcome to bid for long-haul routes if they want (no doubt they do). Who on here has actively argued otherwise? This Manchester supporters say all long-haul should be left to them line doesn't appear to hold substance in reality. Is it perhaps a stick introduced by outsiders to beat the big bad wolf with?
 

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